What follows is an interview with Dretin Jokdru, the iroij or traditional leader [king] of the people of Bikini about The Relations Between the U.S. and the People of Bikini. The interview occurred on 12/17/97 in the office of the Trust Liaison for the People of Bikini. Dretin is 75 years old. The interview was conducted and recorded by Jack Niedenthal. [picture: Dretin Jokdru].
What was your life like before the Americans and other foreigners came to Bikini? How did your community members treat each other? How were your days spent? What did you believe about your future?
Dretin: We lived together in harmony, as if we were one person. If our elders made a decision--any kind of decision--we followed it. It didn't matter what the task was, whether it was making food or clearing land, we listened to our elders. When we would make food, everyone would help and everyone would get a share. In those times we rarely thought about our future. Being together was the most important thing, taking care of ourselves and our children and making sure that we were leading good lives. During those times it was almost as if the future was unimportant, not like today.
After living with the Japanese soldiers on your island for a few years, what was your very first impression of the Americans when they first came to your island?
Dretin: When the Americans came for the first time at the end of the big war, the Japanese men living on our island killed themselves. The Americans were great. They gave us food, they made us laugh, they raised their flag on a coconut tree, and they told us not to worry about the Japanese anymore, that everything was all right, that all the fighting was now over.
What were the Americans doing, why were they there, and what did they say to you? How did you feel about them coming?
Dretin: We were really happy that the Americans had come. The Japanese had treated us horribly...They beat us. You know, just before the Americans came the Japanese men and their behavior toward us worsened: they had turned very nasty. They were threatening to kill our reverend...We were terrified and felt very helpless. Then the Americans came and defeated them. We thought, what a miracle! What timing! What a great thing this was that we wouldn't have to deal with the cruel Japanese anymore!
Did the American officials make any promises to your people regarding your future?
Dretin: They said the same thing over and over again when they visited us: "You have nothing to worry about," they said, "we will make sure everything here on Bikini is good for you." We were so pleased, we almost felt like we were their children...After that horrible war, that was a very good feeling.
After the Americans left, how long was it before they came back? Who were these Americans and what did they want?
Dretin: After a year or so, I guess, they came back...Several men, leaders...Military men. They asked our elders if we would be willing to move from Bikini so they could test something they were calling a "bomb", a "powerful bomb."
How did your community deal with such a large question [giving up your islands for nuclear testing]? Before this request that you give up your islands to benefit mankind so the U.S. could test their nuclear weapons, had you ever considered abandoning your homeland for any reason? Why? What does your land mean to you, how do you feel about your islands?
Dretin: We were afraid, we didn't know what they were talking about. We felt like we didn't have a choice even though they were asking it like a question, and they were promising us that they would take care of us to the best of their abilities. We were confused, scared, uncertain. We had never before even considered moving from Bikini. The only thing we could think about was God, that He would help us through this. We were so sad, so sad...We didn't understand where we were supposed to go...Bikini was our place. Our land is our treasure from our ancestors handed down over many generations from the beginning of time. The way we feel about Bikini is that it is more of a treasure than our own children, that's how important our land is to us. Bikini is where we live in freedom, where we were born and where we are supposed to die.
Was their any opposition to the American proposal? Why couldn't you just say, "No"?
Dretin: No one really said to the Americans that, no, we didn't want to move. We were scared. Our elders had a meeting with our community and tried to explain to us about what the Americans wanted to do with these powerful bombs...Sometimes they would even stop to laugh because they knew--and we knew--that they had no idea what they were talking about. Then they would just say that we had to follow the Americans. Our elders felt that we could not say no to them. The real scary thing was we had no idea as to where they were going to send us, that is what troubled us more than anything at that time.
Did the Americans make any promises to your community before you were moved?
Dretin: The promises they made will always be remembered by our people: They told us that, "Never mind if you are living on a sandbar or even adrift on a raft at sea, we will take care of you as if you are our very own children."
How did your people react to these promises?
Dretin: We believed them, and in a way, we were happy that they would be taking care of us. The world was a strange place for us then. We just couldn't understand why they wanted our island, we just knew that we had to follow their requests. Again, they said we would be like their children, we believed them...
How did your community feel about the Americans after you were moved to Rongerik atoll? and then to Kwajalein? and then to Kili?
Dretin: When we went to Rongerik atoll they dropped us off. There was local food there and they had given us some food, too. Very soon afterward, however, the coconuts, the pandanus, the arrowroot, the food the Americans had left us, everything was gone. That's when we started asking the Americans, when they visited us, "what's going on here, we're hungry, there's no food, what are you going to do?" I was a young man and I worked with others my age. Our job was to go fishing and to sail our canoes to the next atoll, Rongelap, to bring coconuts. It was horrible. We'd get a few fish, then the entire community would have to share this meager amount of nourishment from one iron pot that we had. The fish were not fit to eat there, they were poisonous because of what they ate on the reef. We got sick from them, like when your arms and legs fall asleep and you can't feel anything. We'd get up in the morning to go to our canoes and fall over because we were so ill. We tried so hard to keep everyone fed. Then we started asking these men from America, bring us food...We were dying, but they didn't listen to us. Then they moved us to Kwajalein atoll where America's army men were. I thought this was great. There was so much food and they provided us with a cookhouse and plenty of food. But we still thought about Bikini and we kept asking them about it...They'd say, "Some day you'll go back, but we need Bikini right now." They let us eat with the army--they fed us well on Kwajalein. They also let some of us work for them. Then we went to Kili, a single island. They gave us a lot of food and water and helped us clear the land and build houses. At first, we were happy on Kili...Then we started running out of food again, and again we turned to America for help.
After all of these moves, and after living for the first several decades on Kili Island in total neglect, how did you view your people's relationship with the United States?
Dretin: We had no money, there was little local food on Kili: we had nothing to take care of ourselves with. We asked America for help again. Dr. Mason, an American who helped get us off Rongerik, helped us again when we were on Kili. He reminded the Americans about us, he told them that we were starving, and he made them give us food.
How did you feel after moving back to Bikini in the early 1970's after American President Lyndon B. Johnson declared Bikini safe? How did you feel in 1978 when the Americans again moved some of your people off Bikini after telling you that they had "made a mistake" and that they had ingested large amounts of the radioactive element cesium 137?
We understood that Bikini had been bombed many times by the Americans. Most of us didn't want to go back when they told us it was safe again. It was our feeling that they really didn't know enough about what they had done on Bikini, they themselves had convinced us of the power of their weapons many times. So we decided that those who wanted to go back, could go back, but not all of us wanted to return. Those who went back had problems. They discovered they were "poisoned" from being on Bikini because of the food they ate. How were we supposed to think about this? We are not scientists, we did not go to big schools to get educated. We expected America to tell us the truth about Bikini. These were scientists and the President of the United States that were telling us that Bikini was safe...And they were wrong.
Can you ever trust the Americans again with regard to the radiological status of Bikini, even with the latest developments in technology that the scientists now say would permit a quick return to your homeland?
Dretin: I don't understand some of these methods. They say the poison is still there, but that we can live there if certain things are done. Some scientists have a hard time explaining this, and sometimes we have a hard time understanding them. If they ever came to us as a group--the President of the United States and the scientists--and all agreed about Bikini and that it was safe for us to live, I think we'd go back. We just have to wait, even though we want to go back and are still sad about what happened to our islands.
After the compensation money started coming via the trust funds in the late 1970's, did your view of the U.S. government change? What do you think about the trust fund as a form of compensation [that has lots of rules and laws as opposed to a large direct payment]? Do you feel this money has adequately compensated you for your suffering?
Dretin: The money is wonderful. Many people in the Marshalls are jealous of us now because we can take care of ourselves so well. They say, look at these Bikinians, the Americans are giving them money and food, they are so lucky. And they are right, we are very fortunate, so many people these days have nothing. The trust fund is good, it helps us, it works. It's tough because it has rules, but we are always able to take care of ourselves because of the way it works, and that is so important. But the money is never enough it seems, there is always something more or better that we want for our lives and our children's lives.
Has desire for money replaced your desire to return to your homeland?
Dretin: Our love for Bikini will never disappear, but the money is important, it is used to take care of our families. Bikini is a gift from God, it is not something that gets forgotten. Money comes and money goes.
Will you ever go back to Bikini if it is cleaned and safe for habitation? What about the future generations of your people: your children, your grandchildren, your great grandchildren who have never even seen Bikini and only know about it in mythical terms?
Dretin: That's a tough question that will require a lot of thought and study. If they all say that it is safe, okay, we'll probably go back, that's good. I really want to see our younger generations return to Bikini so they can see that that is their place, their gift from God...I just don't know if we'll have enough money to do the cleanup the way we want it done on Bikini. Bikini will probably never be the way it was when God gave it to us.
As the Compact of Free Association between the Marshall Islands and the U.S. governments winds down [it ends in 2001], what are your hopes for the future relations between the people of Bikini and the government of America?
Dretin: This is important, very important: Our relationship with the United States should never end. That was their own promise to us so many years ago and we want them to honor their own words. Never mind if the Compact ends, we want them to take care of us to the best of their abilities. Our relationship with America should never end...Never.
What could the United States do toward helping you get back to your islands that they have not already done?
Dretin: Again, we want the President of the United States to tell us what he thinks about what the scientists are saying today: Does he believe that Bikini is safe for us to return? Would he return his own family to Bikini if he were one of us?
How will you react if the United States does not live up to their promises in the future?
Dretin: We will remind them of our history together, we will remind them of how we have sacrificed for them, then we will ask them to continue to take care of us. That was their promise and we will hold them to it.
Return to The Cultural Journey
Return to Resource Page for Researchers of Bikini Atoll.